Complete non engagement is how I've approached things Clare. These people, especially councils are like a dog with a bone. You will never win. I've had 2 visits from enforcement agents, one for energy (EDF) about 9 months ago and one for council tax about a month ago. They were both from Marston and young guys, the first being quite nervous. I wouldn't normally open the door to anyone I wasn't expecting but the first occasion I did and just said that I wasn't engaging in any conversation and he just left a form. The second time, I was working in the garage and had gone indoors for a coffee. The front door was ajar so I couldn't avoid him. I said the same thing to him and again he left a form and said he'd be back to remove items from the house to which I firmly replied, you won't be doing that. Haven't heard from them since. The only issue I have had is with the DVLA. Whenever you go into a car park run by companies that use anpr cameras, they're obviously linked to the DVLA so for example, if you over stay your free time, on exit they'll get your address. However, parking eye obviously have a deal with DVLA in that every vehicle regardless of how much time is spent in the car park, they'll check the vehicle for tax. Regardless of privacy issues it would be naive to think that they wouldn't write that into the algorithm. Anyway, I got a 'fine' for driving a car whilst sorned and didn't challenge the fact it was on private land. I got a couple of further letters which I ignored then a letter saying they would be placing an AOE on a relatively small pension I have. I'm retired btw and receive the state pension Anyway, they take around a tenner each month which suits me as the tax is near enough £60 a month. Another thing that happened is that I got a speeding fine on a variable speed limit on the M27 for doing 48 when it was 40. This is typical entrapment tactics they use as there was no reason for reduced limit. Anyway I got a fine from Hampshire constabulary which I ignored and that seems to have gone away. Their cameras don't appear to be linked to DVLA as they didn't say anything about not having car tax. Now, all of this may sound like I'm a wrong'un but after having spent all my life being a law abiding citizen, never been unemployed and paid all my taxes, I've got to the point where I see a government who are essentially a terrorist organisation who are waging war on the people but far more importantly the terrorism they are funding and weapons they are supplying that are killing hundreds of thousands or people. Young men in Ukraine and children in Gaza. The evil and wickedness I'm seeing is like nothing I've seen in my entire life. It's as if evil is now dominating the planet which, regarding our so called leaders, it certainly is. Without making it sound about 'me' I literally lay awake thinking what horrors some people are going through and I'm always conscious of it when going about and enjoying the life I have.
I'd just like to say that I've been subbed to LOL channel since almost the start and a huge thanks to the work you and the team put in but above all it's the empathy and humanity you show towards the people suffering in 'far away countries' that most people are either ignorant of or indifferent toward.
Wow, what a great example you are of standing in your truth. Marston are nothing but a debt collection agency and have no rights of entry, door open or not. I would have threatened him with trespass. They are scum. I only wish more people were like you and recognised the evil at hand. My friend has done similar to you. Just complete non engagement. Gets letters from Marston and bins them. Had a couple of visits and didn't answer the door. Has exactly the same issue as you - until the evil stops he will not pay towards it. Not one penny more
Well, reading the article Clare linked to and as always I stand to be corrected, it would seem that that they are breaching privacy rules because I thought that organisations such parking eye would only access DVLAs database if the parking time was outside of the limit, but in my case I was only in the car park for around 5 minutes. It's clear that these cameras have a permanent link to DVLA who are using them as a third party to obtain drivers vehicle licence status. Is that a breach of GDPR? I don't know but it seems to fall in the definition of fascism. (Private/public partnership). Another thing is that the land is privately owned so can they fine you for driving a car whilst sorned? They never did show me the evidence which they said they had. Also, a while ago I got a 'fine' (invoice) from them in a car park that they operate at nearby as I thought it was a 3 hour limit but it was 2 and a half hours. After a few letters they gave up as they usually do when they discover that you're not easy prey. (My car was taxed back then).
I stopped paying council tax, (nearly 2 years, energy bills (2and a half years) and car tax. 700 quid for driving a 14 year old car less than 4k miles pa? No thanks. I always forget the TV licence as that went years ago. The principle of not funding evil takes precedence to any minor fear I may have of a knock on the door. I'll also never, ever set foot in a court. Thing is I'm not doing anything unlawful.
He gets everywhere that boy. GrayZone did a piece on him being an MI6 asset (I suppose in some respects they all are) - he certainly fits the profile. Plausible exterior (human rights lawyer - how we laugh), reasonably paced rise to the top and now 'in power' ('in office' having been consigned to the skip of so-called 'democracy') and selling shares in UK Plc to the vultures of venture capitalism.
Oct 14·edited Oct 14Liked by Conscientious Currency
Given your extensive legal experience surely advocating people to explore proper litigation options to bring these matters to UK courts would be effective.
Because if covid taught us anything it's that protesting doesn't work. And if we are honest, people these days are unlikely to create the same levels of resistance as seen in previous anti-tax led revolutions.
Firstly I do not have extensive litigation experience as I was not a litigation lawyer. Secondly, anyone believing the legal system will offer up a resolution in light that intnl law has just been cast aside, is I think, at best naive. Thirdly, war tax resistance is more meaningful imho as it represents coming at things from a moral perspective, it directly announces complete dissatisfaction, it can overwhelm the system as if enough people do it it's simply impossible to deal with them all, and lastly in the context of history, it's been proven to work as a method to bring about change. For these reasons I think it's more meaningful and it also forces the issue of whether we actually really need to be taxed - how will our govt deal with this issue if people stop paying and they keep spending. They will either have to admit taxation is a fraud or if they don't want to do that, negotiate
The courts were created by the people to protect the people. The problem we have is not enough people use them properly and most who do try I do not consent or some other form of FMOTL nonsense. I never said you had litigation experience but you do have experience in the legal realm. International law is a smokescreen for tyranny and ultimately legally unenforceable as you have rightly stated. Created by the UN who were practically created by the Rockefellers have turned that into well oiled vaccine pushing machine. Given that one of the catalysts that put the nail in the coffin for covid in the US was everyday people winning a mask case against the government. https://www.networkforphl.org/resources/health-freedom-defense-fund-inc-et-al-v-biden-et-al/ Using the courts correctly can work and it where the peoples real power exists. Protesting on the other hand is kinda like begging and rarely ever works. I just can't see the level of support required for anything like this to work. I'm open to being proven wrong though.
You may be right but I'm probably not the best person to ask about legal challenges. I have seen too much injustice, and the process itself is very expensive. That raises issues of funding and crowd funding has been wantonly abused over the last 5 years. And the mechanism to take individuals of our state through prosecution for aiding war crimes would be thru intl law or by either a PCP or by asking the police to investigate for a crime, then arrest and for the CPS to prosecute under domestic legislation vis The criminal court act. Never going to happen. It's all just so corrupt. I wish I had a better answer for you. I don't, except to say that I think the people have to force the issue
I’d happily engage in income tax resistance if there was a mechanism for doing so. Unfortunately for me and I suspect many others, is that as a retiree, drawing on personal pensions built up over my working life, the Government is in control of my pension savings. The take their tax at source when I make drawdowns- meaning that my pension providers are effectively my new “employers”. I can now see why most of my generation was encouraged strongly to put almost ALL savings into pension funds. It was a tax-trap!
Whatever we can do to reduce our taxes or, better still, not pay the taxes. Also, we should consider reducing our spending in these huge corporate supermarkets as they are all part of the same monster. Most people have small business bakers, butchers, fishmongers, ironmongers, market produce stalls, pet shops for pet foods, etc, in their hometowns. Starve the beast and invest that same money in the people who go it alone with their family businesses and provide shops for the rest of us to use.
Totally agree with you. Withdraw from big corp and take some responsibility by spending with local businesses that are against the removal of cash and other rights
Does paying tax really make us complicit in aiding and abetting acts of terrorism by our government? There is surely a lack of intent to fund terrorism on the part of taxpayers. It therefore seems unreasonable to argue that taxpayers are complicit in any crimes committed by their government?
It depends on who is arguing it and why. I think it is aiding and abetting crimes and I would use that argument as justification for not paying my tax. I don't want to pay for the killing and torture of people. Anywhere. I don't want the state to fund wars anywhere. I'm sick of the state's fraud in removing constitutional rights they have no business interfering with. And I'm definitely not going to pay them to force inject people. As far as I'm concerned I employ MPs for the benefit of the British people and if they are going to use terrorism around the world, and indeed against the British people via nefarious behavioural psychology and strategy of tension fear messaging, then I will not pay them to do this. And I would stand in a court and say that if I had to
I respect and agree with your moral justification for tax resistance as an act of conscientious objection. In making my comment, I had in mind the statement you made near the end of para. 15 of your article: "...it is important to remember that in the context of UK law, individuals who are financially complicit in a crime are regarded as equally guilty as those who directly commit the act." This suggested to me that you are arguing, as a point of law, that all UK taxpayers are therefore as equally guilty of the crimes committed by the government, which you rightly deplore, as the government itself. I cannot agree with such a position for the reason set out in my post.
Is refusal to pay Council Tax a legitimate form of tax resistance? I pay my council tax directly to the bank account of my local council who are not complicit in genocide or illegal wars. Chris Coverdale claims that Council Tax, like Income Tax,isi paid into the Consolidated Fund and therefore funds government spending on illegal wars. I believe that Chris is wrong about this.
I am sure the issue of the consolidated fund has been dealt with in Marc Horns council tax case. I am of the opinion that council tax is NOT paid into the consolidated fund as per that case
So, Chris Coverdale is misleading people when he advocates non-payment of Council Tax as a form of tax resistance against illegal wars and acts of terrorism committed by our government?
No I don't think he is 'misleading people'. He has his own opinion. I have mine. It's difficult to know who is correct about where council tax goes because it's complicated to find out
It's not difficult to find out where Council Tax goes: both sides of the double-entry book-keeping of Council Tax received by councils are publicly disclosed. The "how to pay council tax by bank transfer" section of any council's tax demand or that council's website shows that council's bank account details (debit), and that council's published annual statement of accounts shows council tax as a major income stream (credit). (Where there are two tiers of local authority, district councils collect Council Tax on behalf of their county council.) However, non-domestic rates paid by businesses do go through central government (and the Consolidated Account) as these are then redistributed by the Department of Housing, Communities and Local Government to local authorities.
Complete non engagement is how I've approached things Clare. These people, especially councils are like a dog with a bone. You will never win. I've had 2 visits from enforcement agents, one for energy (EDF) about 9 months ago and one for council tax about a month ago. They were both from Marston and young guys, the first being quite nervous. I wouldn't normally open the door to anyone I wasn't expecting but the first occasion I did and just said that I wasn't engaging in any conversation and he just left a form. The second time, I was working in the garage and had gone indoors for a coffee. The front door was ajar so I couldn't avoid him. I said the same thing to him and again he left a form and said he'd be back to remove items from the house to which I firmly replied, you won't be doing that. Haven't heard from them since. The only issue I have had is with the DVLA. Whenever you go into a car park run by companies that use anpr cameras, they're obviously linked to the DVLA so for example, if you over stay your free time, on exit they'll get your address. However, parking eye obviously have a deal with DVLA in that every vehicle regardless of how much time is spent in the car park, they'll check the vehicle for tax. Regardless of privacy issues it would be naive to think that they wouldn't write that into the algorithm. Anyway, I got a 'fine' for driving a car whilst sorned and didn't challenge the fact it was on private land. I got a couple of further letters which I ignored then a letter saying they would be placing an AOE on a relatively small pension I have. I'm retired btw and receive the state pension Anyway, they take around a tenner each month which suits me as the tax is near enough £60 a month. Another thing that happened is that I got a speeding fine on a variable speed limit on the M27 for doing 48 when it was 40. This is typical entrapment tactics they use as there was no reason for reduced limit. Anyway I got a fine from Hampshire constabulary which I ignored and that seems to have gone away. Their cameras don't appear to be linked to DVLA as they didn't say anything about not having car tax. Now, all of this may sound like I'm a wrong'un but after having spent all my life being a law abiding citizen, never been unemployed and paid all my taxes, I've got to the point where I see a government who are essentially a terrorist organisation who are waging war on the people but far more importantly the terrorism they are funding and weapons they are supplying that are killing hundreds of thousands or people. Young men in Ukraine and children in Gaza. The evil and wickedness I'm seeing is like nothing I've seen in my entire life. It's as if evil is now dominating the planet which, regarding our so called leaders, it certainly is. Without making it sound about 'me' I literally lay awake thinking what horrors some people are going through and I'm always conscious of it when going about and enjoying the life I have.
I'd just like to say that I've been subbed to LOL channel since almost the start and a huge thanks to the work you and the team put in but above all it's the empathy and humanity you show towards the people suffering in 'far away countries' that most people are either ignorant of or indifferent toward.
Wow, what a great example you are of standing in your truth. Marston are nothing but a debt collection agency and have no rights of entry, door open or not. I would have threatened him with trespass. They are scum. I only wish more people were like you and recognised the evil at hand. My friend has done similar to you. Just complete non engagement. Gets letters from Marston and bins them. Had a couple of visits and didn't answer the door. Has exactly the same issue as you - until the evil stops he will not pay towards it. Not one penny more
Thanks Clare
Yes, next time I will threaten them with trespass.
Are the DVLA breaking GDPR laws by providing personal details to Parking Eye? I seem to recall reading something along these lines some time ago.
And https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/25/parking-fines-dvla-law-drivers-details-claims
Yup https://www.kpl-databreach.co.uk/dvla-data-protection-breach/
Well, reading the article Clare linked to and as always I stand to be corrected, it would seem that that they are breaching privacy rules because I thought that organisations such parking eye would only access DVLAs database if the parking time was outside of the limit, but in my case I was only in the car park for around 5 minutes. It's clear that these cameras have a permanent link to DVLA who are using them as a third party to obtain drivers vehicle licence status. Is that a breach of GDPR? I don't know but it seems to fall in the definition of fascism. (Private/public partnership). Another thing is that the land is privately owned so can they fine you for driving a car whilst sorned? They never did show me the evidence which they said they had. Also, a while ago I got a 'fine' (invoice) from them in a car park that they operate at nearby as I thought it was a 3 hour limit but it was 2 and a half hours. After a few letters they gave up as they usually do when they discover that you're not easy prey. (My car was taxed back then).
I stopped paying council tax, (nearly 2 years, energy bills (2and a half years) and car tax. 700 quid for driving a 14 year old car less than 4k miles pa? No thanks. I always forget the TV licence as that went years ago. The principle of not funding evil takes precedence to any minor fear I may have of a knock on the door. I'll also never, ever set foot in a court. Thing is I'm not doing anything unlawful.
How have you found the process? Repeated harassment or do you find non engagement works?
Great article. The Peace Tax 7 probably failed as one of the lawyers representing them was Keir Starmer, the war criminal shill.
No bloody way!!!!! I didn't know. Didn't even look. Thanks for the heads up
He gets everywhere that boy. GrayZone did a piece on him being an MI6 asset (I suppose in some respects they all are) - he certainly fits the profile. Plausible exterior (human rights lawyer - how we laugh), reasonably paced rise to the top and now 'in power' ('in office' having been consigned to the skip of so-called 'democracy') and selling shares in UK Plc to the vultures of venture capitalism.
I dont think I have seen that Grayzone article so will seek out. It certainly makes sense I agree
Given your extensive legal experience surely advocating people to explore proper litigation options to bring these matters to UK courts would be effective.
Because if covid taught us anything it's that protesting doesn't work. And if we are honest, people these days are unlikely to create the same levels of resistance as seen in previous anti-tax led revolutions.
Firstly I do not have extensive litigation experience as I was not a litigation lawyer. Secondly, anyone believing the legal system will offer up a resolution in light that intnl law has just been cast aside, is I think, at best naive. Thirdly, war tax resistance is more meaningful imho as it represents coming at things from a moral perspective, it directly announces complete dissatisfaction, it can overwhelm the system as if enough people do it it's simply impossible to deal with them all, and lastly in the context of history, it's been proven to work as a method to bring about change. For these reasons I think it's more meaningful and it also forces the issue of whether we actually really need to be taxed - how will our govt deal with this issue if people stop paying and they keep spending. They will either have to admit taxation is a fraud or if they don't want to do that, negotiate
The courts were created by the people to protect the people. The problem we have is not enough people use them properly and most who do try I do not consent or some other form of FMOTL nonsense. I never said you had litigation experience but you do have experience in the legal realm. International law is a smokescreen for tyranny and ultimately legally unenforceable as you have rightly stated. Created by the UN who were practically created by the Rockefellers have turned that into well oiled vaccine pushing machine. Given that one of the catalysts that put the nail in the coffin for covid in the US was everyday people winning a mask case against the government. https://www.networkforphl.org/resources/health-freedom-defense-fund-inc-et-al-v-biden-et-al/ Using the courts correctly can work and it where the peoples real power exists. Protesting on the other hand is kinda like begging and rarely ever works. I just can't see the level of support required for anything like this to work. I'm open to being proven wrong though.
You may be right but I'm probably not the best person to ask about legal challenges. I have seen too much injustice, and the process itself is very expensive. That raises issues of funding and crowd funding has been wantonly abused over the last 5 years. And the mechanism to take individuals of our state through prosecution for aiding war crimes would be thru intl law or by either a PCP or by asking the police to investigate for a crime, then arrest and for the CPS to prosecute under domestic legislation vis The criminal court act. Never going to happen. It's all just so corrupt. I wish I had a better answer for you. I don't, except to say that I think the people have to force the issue
I’d happily engage in income tax resistance if there was a mechanism for doing so. Unfortunately for me and I suspect many others, is that as a retiree, drawing on personal pensions built up over my working life, the Government is in control of my pension savings. The take their tax at source when I make drawdowns- meaning that my pension providers are effectively my new “employers”. I can now see why most of my generation was encouraged strongly to put almost ALL savings into pension funds. It was a tax-trap!
This is how you lawfully stop paying tax.
http://self-realisation.com/video/success-with-the-taxman-2/
Whatever we can do to reduce our taxes or, better still, not pay the taxes. Also, we should consider reducing our spending in these huge corporate supermarkets as they are all part of the same monster. Most people have small business bakers, butchers, fishmongers, ironmongers, market produce stalls, pet shops for pet foods, etc, in their hometowns. Starve the beast and invest that same money in the people who go it alone with their family businesses and provide shops for the rest of us to use.
Totally agree with you. Withdraw from big corp and take some responsibility by spending with local businesses that are against the removal of cash and other rights
Does paying tax really make us complicit in aiding and abetting acts of terrorism by our government? There is surely a lack of intent to fund terrorism on the part of taxpayers. It therefore seems unreasonable to argue that taxpayers are complicit in any crimes committed by their government?
It depends on who is arguing it and why. I think it is aiding and abetting crimes and I would use that argument as justification for not paying my tax. I don't want to pay for the killing and torture of people. Anywhere. I don't want the state to fund wars anywhere. I'm sick of the state's fraud in removing constitutional rights they have no business interfering with. And I'm definitely not going to pay them to force inject people. As far as I'm concerned I employ MPs for the benefit of the British people and if they are going to use terrorism around the world, and indeed against the British people via nefarious behavioural psychology and strategy of tension fear messaging, then I will not pay them to do this. And I would stand in a court and say that if I had to
I respect and agree with your moral justification for tax resistance as an act of conscientious objection. In making my comment, I had in mind the statement you made near the end of para. 15 of your article: "...it is important to remember that in the context of UK law, individuals who are financially complicit in a crime are regarded as equally guilty as those who directly commit the act." This suggested to me that you are arguing, as a point of law, that all UK taxpayers are therefore as equally guilty of the crimes committed by the government, which you rightly deplore, as the government itself. I cannot agree with such a position for the reason set out in my post.
I'm arguing that it's a valid point to raise as a defence. Not a stick to beat people with
OK, got it 👍 Thanks for clarifying
Is refusal to pay Council Tax a legitimate form of tax resistance? I pay my council tax directly to the bank account of my local council who are not complicit in genocide or illegal wars. Chris Coverdale claims that Council Tax, like Income Tax,isi paid into the Consolidated Fund and therefore funds government spending on illegal wars. I believe that Chris is wrong about this.
I am sure the issue of the consolidated fund has been dealt with in Marc Horns council tax case. I am of the opinion that council tax is NOT paid into the consolidated fund as per that case
So, Chris Coverdale is misleading people when he advocates non-payment of Council Tax as a form of tax resistance against illegal wars and acts of terrorism committed by our government?
No I don't think he is 'misleading people'. He has his own opinion. I have mine. It's difficult to know who is correct about where council tax goes because it's complicated to find out
It's not difficult to find out where Council Tax goes: both sides of the double-entry book-keeping of Council Tax received by councils are publicly disclosed. The "how to pay council tax by bank transfer" section of any council's tax demand or that council's website shows that council's bank account details (debit), and that council's published annual statement of accounts shows council tax as a major income stream (credit). (Where there are two tiers of local authority, district councils collect Council Tax on behalf of their county council.) However, non-domestic rates paid by businesses do go through central government (and the Consolidated Account) as these are then redistributed by the Department of Housing, Communities and Local Government to local authorities.